I’ve long wondered about what’s going on in the Voynich Manuscript’s final (and, many think, ‘boringest’) quire, Quire #20: I summarized a lot of current Q20 research here last month. But just what Q20’s paragraph markers – whether they turn out to be stars, comets, or flowers – are remains a mystery… basically, why are they there at all?
You see, because each star sits at the start of a paragraph and (as Elmar Vogt helpfully pointed out) many are arranged on pages in what seem to be repetitive x-o-x-o-x-o patterns, it seems fairly safe to conclude that these are mostly decorative, and hence there is probably nothing much “written in the stars”. Of course, anyone who desperately wants to go a-huntin’ for a biliteral ciphertext hidden there is more than welcome to try (go ahead, feel free to knock yourself out), but I don’t honestly think you’ll squeeze much juice out of that lemon, sorry. And wipe that sour look off your face, OK? 🙂
Yet even so, the brutal fact remains that the paragraph stars are there: and given that pretty much everything else in the VMs mutely screams of carefully-executed disguised intention, I think we should expect there to have been a perfectly good reason for their existence, however mundane that might actually be. So probably the best question to be asking is: what function (however minor) could these stars be performing? What did they help the author(s) do?
Until a few days ago, this was pretty much the brick wall my chain of reasoning had hit: but then I read an interesting post by Rich SantaColoma on the ‘weirdo’ red glyphs on f1r (the very first page of the Voynich Manuscript). In particular, Rich points out the striking similarity between the first “bird glyph” (the first symbol of the second paragraph in the VMs) and marginal paragraph markers in some 16th Century Spanish manuscripts, the Codex Mendoza [1541/2], the Aubin Codex [started in 1567] and the [probably fake!] Codex Cardona, while in the comments to Rich’s page, Ernest also mentioned the Codex Osuna [1565] and the Book of Chilam Balam of Chumayel.
Ultimately, Rich’s reasoning comes down to this: in these Spanish manuscripts, the glyph is simply a decorative “Y”-shape, short for “Ydem”, which is used in lists pretty much the same way as both “item” and “ibidem” (which we still use in its differently-shortened form “ibid.“), so it seems reasonable to infer that this is what’s happening on f1r of the VMs too.
All fair enough: but regardless of whether Rich’s idea turns out to be right or wrong (and it’s desperately hard to build up a really convincing case on a single instance of a single shape), what struck me most was the parallel between the paragraph stars and these similarly itemized lists. (But no, I’m definitely not proposing that Q20 is a Powerpoint presentation from the Renaissance).
So… might each star simply be an embellished / disguised “y”, short for (say) “ydem” / “ytem” / “idem” / “ibidem” / “item”? Actually, I think yes: look at the following picture (which contains all the paragraph stars from f104v), and I’ll show you how I think the “y” was hidden in the first four stars (highlighted in bright red), make up your own mind for the rest:-
Now tell me the second best explanation for these! And yes, I do know that some of the (probably later) pages in Q20 have tail-less stars, but the basic hidden-in-plain-sight steganographic conceit was probably getting a bit boring by then, 300+ stars later. 🙂
Interesting idea! The emphasis on the “Y-shape” in the stars is pronounced in some examples, too… such as the lower left one.
I’m afraid I cannot keep the credit for the “ydem” idea, though… it was feedback from Stephanie Wood of the University of Oregon. I did credit her in the blog reply, but it was not clear enough… sorry.
I also noted elsewhere that one page of “paragraph markers” was only “v’s”, and then in a different hand, where the lowest one might be, was the word “vida”.
Howcome some have solid dots in the center and some don’t??
Hell is murky. . .
Don: to those who say “Hell is other people“, I say “try Voynich research, see how you find that…“. 😉
“Hell” is just a word. Reality is much worse…
Elmar: I suspect the description of Hell as being somewhere hot and underground came from someone having a prophetic vision of rush hour Tube commuting in London. Hell is not other people, Hell is other people’s armpits! 😉
Although the linguistic side is not my field, I wonder if these pages aren’t more in keeping with the sort of material illustrated: that is, with plants and things.
The filled, and unfilled star-flowers might indicate postive, and negative benefits, for example.
We have a possible model here in the Tacuinum sanitatis. I have been focussing on the copy which belonged to the Cerruti family in northern Italy, and although I am still down south, away from my copy, I have taken the following from a segment in an article I wrote some time ago. Hope it is of interest – and due credit to anyone who has already mentioned it, of course.
_____
“Every item is described by a list of seven rigidly-ordered points. which are:
• complexio: nature
• electio: preferred characteristics
• iuvamentum: usefulness (positive value)
• nocumentum: harm (negative value)
• remotio nocumentum: means to drive off harm
• …quid generat… : affect
• and then a list of the age, season,and region when use of this good is most advantageous.
The same series: ‘complexion’, opposition, complementarity, age, season and region is then incorporated into later works descriptive of the seasonal directions (e.g. North=Winter etc), as can be seen from numerous charts and diagrams made in Europe thereafter…
—-
This is a copy-paste from my original draft, with original formatting.
PS when I say ‘then’ I mean in works produced in the Latin west, in the 15th and later centuries.
Diane: thanks, another very interesting comment to mull over. In the case of the VMs, I’ve long looked for any disguised structure underlying the text on herbal pages (such as this seven-way division), but without any luck. I’m reasonably sure that there is something there… I just haven’t found it yet. 🙂 For the paragraph stars’ colours, positive (yellow?) and negative (red?) could well be ‘medicine’ and ‘poison’ respectively, but it’s not obvious if we have any additional clues that might help us tell.
Bother. I should have mentioned that the translator of the Cerruti copy – Judith Spenser – provides this list, and also comments on it.
Our posts crossed. And yes, the clues on those folios are minimal, aren’t they?
Diane: that would depend how devious you are. Between the codicology, the palaeography, the cryptology and the stats, there’s probably just enough information to reconstruct the original bifolio ordering/nesting, which might open yet further research doors…
* Lo siento, pero son estrellas o flores…
I creo que no tienen el menor interés en el sistema criptográfico.
Lo siento por mis comentarios, pero llega un momento que uno no puede mas.
* Sorry, but they are stars or flowers …
I think that they have no interest in the cryptographic system.
Sorry for my comments, but at some point that one can not more.
Sergi: assertions and arguments without evidence help nobody. Explain why you are so sure, and we all stand a chance of benefitting!
* No se puede asegurar que no tengan un sentido estas estrellas.
Pero si uno esta atento al manuscrito, puede observar:
– Estas estrellas solo aparecen en unas hojas concretas, nada parecido se encuentra en otros textos. Concretamente donde no hay separaciones de párrafos.
– En la mayoría de casos es seguida de unas letras concretas, en especial dos. Que de forma general encontramos del mismo modo cuando se inician parágrafos en otras hojas.
– Por necesidad del escritor, es lógico poner señales que marquen los diversos grupos texto, si se quiere aprovechar el espacio del papel.
– Este aprovechamiento del espacio, es posible que generase el sistema de escritura A y B, pues en estos textos “estrellados” se puede apreciar donde comienzan los grupos, sin permitir juegos de inicio y final del código que aparecen en los textos ilustrados.
Por ejemplo: El texto que aparece en la pagina 76 en la parte superior izquierda, comenzando por una figura humana y la continuación en la siguiente pagina (77) en la parte superior, que aparece encima de unas ilustraciones de los elementos y humores.
Siendo así los dibujos de los cuatro elemento y sus respectivos humores.
PD: Se que es muy divertido divagar sobre el manuscrito, pero me gustaría que las teorías que se presenten estén mas razonadas. Aunque esta en concreto de las Y, no es la mas alocada que he oido.
* We can not assure that these stars have a meaning.
But if one is attentive to the manuscript, you may notice:
– These stars appear only in specific leaves, anything like that found in other texts. In particular where there is no separation of paragraphs.
– In most cases it is followed by a few specific points, especially two. That generally found in the same way when they start paragraphs on other sheets.
– By necessity of the writer, it is logical to put up signs to mark the various groups text if it wants to use the paper space.
– The use of space, they might lead to the writing system A and B, because in these texts “stars” can be seen where the groups start, not allowing games start and end of the code displayed on the illustrated texts.
For example: The text that appears on page 76 in the top left, starting with a human figure and then on the next page (77) at the top, which appears on some illustrations of the elements and moods.
Thus the drawings of the four elements and their moods.
PS: I know a lot of fun wandering on the manuscript, but I’d like to present theories are more reasonable. Although this particular of the Y, not the most crazy I’ve heard.
Sergi: I’m all for logical arguments, when they are a series of linked observations and inferences.
For example, my argument runs:
1. similar Renaissance documents use “ornate y” as a scribal abbreviation for “ydem” / “ytem” / “ybidem”
2. the second paragraph of f1r appears to commence with an extremely ornate y
3. ergo, the author was probably working within broadly the same (probably Western European) textual tradition
4. Quire 20 comprises long lists of single paragraphs with an ornate sign in the margin
5. Other research indicates that the information content of these stars is extremely limited
6. Putting 1, 3, 4, and 5 together, I therefore constructed an hypothesis: Q20’s ornate signs in the margin might simply be “ornate y” shapes
7. Revisiting Q20 with this hypothesis in mind, I noticed a clear y-shape hidden in plain sight (in the stems and a lower point of the stars)
8. As correlative evidence, I illustrated the visual phenomenon and clearly presented it.
Whereas your argument seems to start with your alternative conclusion:-
1. “we cannot be [as]sure that these stars have a meaning”
All the rest of your statements (about placement etc) seems unconnected to this conclusion.
Obviously, you have a very good idea about what you’re trying to argue for, but I’m struggling to compare the two arguments. Perhaps I’ve missed something?
* No, no se ha perdido nada.
Pero intentaba insinuar, que los dibujos, como las estrellas y otras representaciones. Por ejemplo: los elementos, zodiacos, plantas, tuberías… Muy posiblemente no tienen nada de información respecto al texto que se encuentra a su lado.
Yo creo que sirven para entretener y ocultar mas el mensaje.
Como ejemplo puedo dar el mismo caso que comente de la pagina 76 y 77:
– Si sumamos todas las letras que compone la frase, que se encuentra encima y debajo de las ilustraciones superiores. Tiene el mismo resultado que las letras que componen los elementos y humores en latín.
– Esta coincidencia de letras es casual ? pero por mucho que intente descifrar
no encontrara nada.
– No es casual, esta realizado para confundir al lector y entretenerlo a un camino sin salida.
– Pero en cambio si solo lee la pagina 77, obtendrá 8 palabras, los mismos que los elementos. Pero nuevamente no conseguirá ninguna hipótesis basándose en este hecho.
Casos de este tipo tengo varios documentados, todos ellos utilizando sistemas repetitivos. El secreto del manuscrito, es esconder el mensaje mediante pautas establecidas, que el lector confunde con el sistema criptográfico, pero no tienen significado.
PD: Comparar es muy interesante, pero creo que hay que esforzarme en el texto. Se pueden encontrar muchas curiosidades. Por ejemplo: En el zodiaco completo, hay una palabra que comienza de la misma forma que otra de los elementos. Es Aquarius y Aqua ?
* * No, not lost anything.
* No, not lost anything.
But trying to insinuate, that the drawings, like stars and other representations. For example: the elements, zodiac, plant, pipes … Quite possibly have no information about the text that is on your side.
I think they serve to entertain and hide but the message.
As an example I can give the same case to comment on page 76 and 77:
– If you add up all the letters that make up the sentence, which is located above and below the top panels. Has the same result as the letters that make up the elements and humours in Latin.
– This letter is casual coincidence? but however much you try to decipher
find nothing.
– It is no coincidence, this done to confuse and entertain the reader to a dead end.
– But instead if you only read the page 77, you get 8 words, the same as the elements. But again not get any hypothesis on this basis.
Cases of this kind I have several documents all systems using repetitive. The secret of the manuscript, is to hide the message using established guidelines, the reader confused with the cryptographic system, but have no meaning.
PS: Compare is very interesting, but I believe we should strive in the text. You can find many curiosities. For example: In the entire zodiac, is a word that begins the same way as other elements. And Aquarius is Aqua?
Sergi: until such time as someone demonstrates that the Voynich’s drawings and their labels are either misleading, unconnected or meaningless, it is not really safe to write them off. Instead, we have to learn to live with these many uncertainties and so focus our efforts on finding those subtle aspects (such as Aquarius / Aqua – it is such a shame this page is missing!) that stand a chance of moving us forward.
* Creo que es imposible demostrar en estos momentos una cosa u otra. I entiendo que se estudie cualquier detalle del libro.
Pero como he dicho: en el texto hay suficientes datos para estudiar.
Como todo aficionado al MV, espero encontrar la solución y así poder responder con exactitud.
En la actualidad ya dispongo de suficientes pruebas, para demostrar que el manuscrito esta escrito mediante un sistema ordenado y que pautas se utilizan, pero todavía no entiendo su totalidad. En estas condiciones es muy pronto realizar estadísticas de distribución de algún idioma.
Pero sin lugar a dudas, puedo presentar algunas pistas de algunas curiosidades que he encontrando en el libro. Espero que se mire detalladamente los elementos y su pagina anterior, su relación directa con la pagina del zodiaco completo.
PD: En este tema si no encuentra la curiosidad, con mucho gusto le puedo dar los detalles. Es necesario por ello, que me exprese que sistema de escritura utiliza y versión del manuscrito.
_
_
* I think it is currently impossible to prove one thing or another. I understand that consideration be given any details of the book.
But as I said in the text are insufficient data to study.
As any fan MV I hope to find a solution so we can respond accurately.
Today I already have enough evidence to prove that the manuscript is written by an orderly system and guidelines are used, but not yet fully understand. Under these conditions it is too early distribution statistics do any language.
But certainly, I can make some tracks I’ve found some interesting facts in the book. I hope you will look in detail the elements and Back, his relationship with the page full zodiac.
PS: This topic did not find the curious, I can gladly give details. It is therefore necessary that I express that used writing system and version of the manuscript.
Sergi: curiously enough, I think almost the opposite – that the text contains more than sufficient data to study. However, the problem is that these data are scattered across multiple fields (codicology, palaeography, statistics, cryptology, image processing, history, linguistics, etc), making them hard to join together. Voynich researchers have learnt to be extremely observant: but overall, I believe that it is an epistemological challenge we face, of blending heterogenous fragments of knowledge into enough micro-narratives, and then merging those micro-narratives into something more of a macro-history.
* En anterioridad estaría totalmente a favor con lo que dices. Pero en la actualidad no puedo seguir este planteamiento. Por los datos obtenidos y me reservo a expresar en este momento, hasta que tenga algo más que una teoría.
Respecto a la epistemological, concretamente estoy realizando un estudio sobre ello. El manuscrito es uno de los dos ejercicios de trabajo que utilizo para demostrar mis estudios de epistemología.
Es muy fácil teorizar, pero es mas importante demostrar con hechos. El manuscrito es un buen sistema de demostración, de la forma de interpretar la realidad por los diversos sujetos, es por ello que me interesa mucho tu pagina, pues observo las interpretaciones de otros buscadores de la supuesta realidad del manuscrito.
Pero este post y alguna otra teoría me ha sorprendido excesivamente.
–
–
* In earlier would be all for what you say. But now I can not follow this approach. For the data and I reserve to express at this time, pending more than a theory.
With regard to the epistemological, specifically I am doing a study on it. The manuscript is one of the two years of work I use to show my studies, epistemology.
It’s easy to theorize, but it is more important to show with facts. The manuscript is a good demonstration system, the way of interpreting reality by the various subjects, which is why I am very interested in your site, then observe the performances of other seekers of the supposed reality of the manuscript.
But this post and some other theory has surprised me too.
Sergi: I would say that the Voynich Manuscript establishes a strong counter-argument to those who would see knowledge as uni-modal. The purpose of historical knowledge (going backwards in time from effects to reconstructed causes) sits diametrically opposits the purpose of scientific knowledge (going forwards in time from actions to predicted reactions), and yet in the VMs we often need to blend and reconcile these two different types – two modes – of knowledge. I wrote my Masters dissertation on this kind of epistemology, have you seen it?
* Estoy a favor de su tesis.
Aproximadamente es el tema concreto que estoy estudiando en el manuscrito. Yo lo llamo aprendizaje combinatorio y aleatorio.
Los estudios lineales, tienen el defecto de ser restrictivos. Todo sistema que no se base en el conocimiento pautado por el hombre queda en inexplicable o en una farsa, como el manuscrito.
En estos casos, es requerirle de un análisis aleatorio, que casualmente de una solución. Y combinatorio, aprovechando soluciones de otras ciencias para intentar responder el acertijo.
Pero el problema es no entrar en la fantasía, por ello hay que dar respuestas por diversos puntos, no únicos o lineales, pues si no volvemos al mismo error de los estudios tradicionales de carácter lineal y pautado. Otro truco para no entrar en la fantasía es basarse en una realidad demostrable.
En el manuscrito tenemos una realidad indiscutible, la ley de Zipf. Que no es posible que en esos siglos se tuviera consideración al realizar la criptografía.
–
–
* I support his thesis.
It is about the particular topic I’m studying in the manuscript. I call it combinatorial and random learning.
Linear studies, have the defect of being restrictive. Any system that is not based on knowledge is scheduled for man in inexplicable or a farce, as the manuscript.
In these cases, require a random testing, which happens for a solution. And combinatorial science building other solutions to try to answer the riddle.
But the problem is not into fantasy, so we have to give answers several points, no unique or linear, because unless we return to the same error as the linear nature of traditional studies and guidelines. Another trick to not get into the fantasy is based on a demonstrable reality.
In the manuscript we have an undeniable fact, Zipf’s law. It is not possible that in those centuries had considered when making cryptography.
Sergi: unfortunately for this, knowledge always requires imaginative steps to reach its goal – for example, scientists and historians need to imagine possible pasts and possible futures before they can be filtered into probable pasts and probable futures. The proliferation of mad Voynich Manuscript theories merely makes sharply visible the deep division between (laughably) possible and (convincingly) probable… we have so much and so little of each (respectively). 🙂
Interesting idea, Nick.
Of course, in case the tail means ‘y’ for ‘ydem’, then ‘mostly decorative’ would still apply….
Cheers, Rene
Hello Nick.
Interesting ideas to be sure. In note 15 above, you make a good case for the possibility that the stars/flowers of quire 20 are a means of hiding an ornate “Y” shape. As to why the author would feel this was needed we can only speculate — placing drawings of anything at those spots would serve the same purpose if they are meant to be serve as “ydem” punctuation.
If the stars do serve to hide a ‘Y’ shape and “If” the glyph on folio 1r can be read likewise I would like to suggest that the 4 paragraphs on 1r may be a Table of Contents with the 2nd paragraph containing the red ‘Y’ glyph refering ahead to this section.
Cheers, Erni
Erni: people have suggested that f1r – a text-only page at the start of a long herbal section – might be an index page for many years. The interesting question is more to do with the how, and that is where the whole ‘ydem’ stuff comes in. And similarly for Q20! 🙂
* Sigo creyendo que veis demasiadas Y… me podéis mostrar algún ejemplo que acompañe tantas seguidas?
–
–
* I still think you see too Y. .. you can show me an example that accompanies many a row?
* Ejemplo que no sea el Voynich.
–
–
* Example is not the Voynich.
Hello Nick.
I realize that the concept of 1r as an index page is “old hat” when it comes to figuring out the structure of the manuscript ( the layout of 66r also invites this sort of comparison ).
My thought was that if it is actually an index/chapter list — we could speculate that the “how” of it points to a section of the manuscript where “Ydem” symbols are plentyful — Quire 20. The tailed star/flower symbol also appears at the tops of folios 58r and 58v, but only one each. . . are not quite so attractive.
On a related note, I haven’t seen any mention of folios 57v and 66r both having the “Ydem” symbol or “Bird glyph” as it has been called in the Vms-list posts as an un-hidden ( albeit inverted ) character in the charts/lists written there. I’m not sure of it’s inverted significance — but its appearance in the midst of a text-string ( 57v ) and its inclusion as one of a group of vertical characters seem to point to another function here.
Cheers, Erni
One additional comment WRT Quire 20 is that the stars seem to do well aligning to new paragraphs (ie sentence stops well short of the end of page, and a gallows (namely EVA “f”/”p” ) starts a new para.) but this seems to break down curiously on F108v and F111r. The Star/paragraph/gallows come back into sync halfway down F111v and continue until halfway down F116v. The problem I have is that even when we seem to breakdown on the paragraph/gallows structure, the stars continue pretty much at the same pace, thus: Given that most of the Quire is so consistent with this para/gallows method, either the rules (albeit a loose rule) for generating paragraphs change for F108v and F111, or the stars do not align in a itemised para list (ie What are the stars aligning to during these sections where we have no paragraphs identified as in F108V and F111? )
TT
Nick, there aren’t many blogs whose posts are still as interesting nearly12 months later – yours have that quality.
But why not just take the flowers as asterisks of a kind, and used as a semi-metaphor, the way the medieval people used to describe epitomes as ‘florilegium’ – flowers of e.g. wisdom. The filled and unfilled I still think likely to represent the same dualist attitudes I’ve noted in a lot of the Vms imagery. Nothing dramatic, perhaps, just an ingrained habit of matching the ‘good/cultivated/beneficial’ against the ‘bad/wild/unpleasant’ and so on.
Just was reading up on this today (the Voynich Manuscript). Thinking it’s his (artist/author’s) botanical list. When he finds the plant he goes back in and marks the center in red (or whatever color). I think the pregnant ladies and all that in the flower drawings are just the stigma’s of the flowers, as they are the ‘female’ parts of the flower and the anthems or filaments carry the pollen and bring it to the stigma or lady and impregnate her into a seed. Just thinking. Tx, Sue
Stars are not decorative. They are like “links” / captions with instructions or descriptions, related to the circular diagrams, which are actually disks that can be rotated to provide complex combinations (in this case, plants). Every star on the page looks like an ornament, allows the “reading” of different paragraphs but is related to the previous images where they appear not as stars but as different stars. You have ON/OFF stars (with or without the black spot), DISTANT / RELATED (with tail or without), Complete or Incomplete (8 rays, then 7, even 6 and 5 ).
Ondyn’s comment is intriguing. I wonder if it is explained more fully anywhere?
Diane: not as far as I know… hopefully he’ll come back and tell us more when he’s good and ready. 🙂
Nick, Diane, other interested: Please urge Ondyn to further comment. (S)he is right on the mark! (I refer to ‘she’ because I think another spelling is the feminine Ondine – ?)