Comments on: More APOD spin-off comments… http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments The latest news, views, research and reviews on uncracked historical ciphers... Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:49:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Special Sauce http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments/comment-page-1#comment-16441 Special Sauce Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:38:26 +0000 http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=2691#comment-16441 Nick, thanks for your page. One would never guess there were so many fun ciphers out there. Or the interest is shared by so many people! Regards Special Sauce Nick, thanks for your page. One would never guess there were so many fun ciphers out there. Or the interest is shared by so many people!

Regards

Special Sauce

]]> By: nickpelling http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments/comment-page-1#comment-15763 nickpelling Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:19:51 +0000 http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=2691#comment-15763 <strong>Christopher:</strong> unfortunately, the link you gave was only valid for a session - which BnF book were you looking at? <strong>Paul:</strong> as I recall, people trying to date the VMs' nymph hairstyles have tended to suggest later dates (closer to 1500 than to 1440), which I would say is a bit strange. There's plenty of room for someone to swing in and say something really amazing about this but... it hasn't happened yet. =:-o Also: as for comparisons with thermae, you might ask our friend Adam McLean, it's a bit of a specialist subject for him! :-) Christopher: unfortunately, the link you gave was only valid for a session – which BnF book were you looking at?

Paul: as I recall, people trying to date the VMs’ nymph hairstyles have tended to suggest later dates (closer to 1500 than to 1440), which I would say is a bit strange. There’s plenty of room for someone to swing in and say something really amazing about this but… it hasn’t happened yet. =:-o Also: as for comparisons with thermae, you might ask our friend Adam McLean, it’s a bit of a specialist subject for him! :-)

]]> By: Christopher Hagedorn http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments/comment-page-1#comment-15761 Christopher Hagedorn Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:55:37 +0000 http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=2691#comment-15761 Is <a href="http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/CadresFenetre?O=COMP-1&I=3&M=imageseule" rel="nofollow">this</a> the image you are referring to? Is this the image you are referring to?

]]> By: nickpelling http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments/comment-page-1#comment-15675 nickpelling Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:52:43 +0000 http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=2691#comment-15675 <strong>Rene:</strong> thanks, good find! What I also find intriguing about Coislin 338 is that it contains a 16-way circular diagram (fol. 121v) immediately adjacent to a 12-way circular diagram (fol. 122r), just as we would have seen in the VMs' original page order. I think a post on this and Theon of Alexandria (<em>Hypatia's father, conspiracy fans!</em>) is probably in order... Rene: thanks, good find! What I also find intriguing about Coislin 338 is that it contains a 16-way circular diagram (fol. 121v) immediately adjacent to a 12-way circular diagram (fol. 122r), just as we would have seen in the VMs’ original page order. I think a post on this and Theon of Alexandria (Hypatia’s father, conspiracy fans!) is probably in order…

]]> By: Rene Zandbergen http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments/comment-page-1#comment-15674 Rene Zandbergen Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:28:42 +0000 http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=2691#comment-15674 As a classical example of synchronicity, I stumbled upon an image in a 15th century MS that shows a pattern which is quite similar to that of our favourite APOD picture. The MS in question is called Coislin 338 and it is preserved in the Bibliotheque Nationale de France, in Paris. It's the third case where I find a possible precedent for a Voynich astronomical illustration, where the original MS is Greek. The other two were described here: http://www.voynich.nu/extra/mstaur.html http://www.voynich.nu/extra/vatg1291.html In this case, as in the case of the Helios miniature, the Greek MS deals with Théon's "handy tables". I am not sure whether the image can be published here. In any case it is barely legible. I'm sending it to Nick and he may decide whether to include it. The point I wanted to make is: for me, the Voynich MS astronomical illustrations are rather arcane, and do not deal at all with the astronomy of the times of Copernicus and after, but with the times much before that. As a classical example of synchronicity, I stumbled upon an image
in a 15th century MS that shows a pattern which is quite similar to that
of our favourite APOD picture. The MS in question is called Coislin 338
and it is preserved in the Bibliotheque Nationale de France, in Paris.
It’s the third case where I find a possible precedent for a
Voynich astronomical illustration, where the original MS is Greek.
The other two were described here:
http://www.voynich.nu/extra/mstaur.html
http://www.voynich.nu/extra/vatg1291.html

In this case, as in the case of the Helios miniature, the Greek MS
deals with Théon’s “handy tables”.

I am not sure whether the image can be published here.
In any case it is barely legible. I’m sending it to Nick and he may
decide whether to include it.

The point I wanted to make is: for me, the Voynich MS astronomical
illustrations are rather arcane, and do not deal at all with the astronomy of
the times of Copernicus and after, but with the times much before that.

]]> By: nickpelling http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments/comment-page-1#comment-15608 nickpelling Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:47:31 +0000 http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=2691#comment-15608 Actually, <a href="http://marshallfoundation.org/library/documents/FreidmanCollectionGuide.pdf" rel="nofollow">William Friedman's collection</a> (donated after his death in 1969) contains a book showing a "Glagolitsa" alphabet in (Item 208.1), so it would not be completely implausible if WFF turns out to be the 20th century source for any suggestions of similarities (<em>however fleeting</em>) between Voynichese and Glagolithic scripts (even if he did end up taking a "synthetic language" position by 1959). Incidentally, Rafal Prinke once mentioned the "alphabet of Perm" while discussing this: here's a <a href="http://www.omniglot.com/writing/oldpermic.htm" rel="nofollow">recent page on the Permic alphabet</a>, just in case you're interested. :-) Actually, William Friedman’s collection (donated after his death in 1969) contains a book showing a “Glagolitsa” alphabet in (Item 208.1), so it would not be completely implausible if WFF turns out to be the 20th century source for any suggestions of similarities (however fleeting) between Voynichese and Glagolithic scripts (even if he did end up taking a “synthetic language” position by 1959).

Incidentally, Rafal Prinke once mentioned the “alphabet of Perm” while discussing this: here’s a recent page on the Permic alphabet, just in case you’re interested. :-)

]]> By: nickpelling http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments/comment-page-1#comment-15606 nickpelling Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:34:18 +0000 http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=2691#comment-15606 Sadly, it's a bit late to ask William Ralph Bennett Jr (1930-2008) if he thought of the comparison himself, but his source (if any) surely wasn't Baresch. :-) Sadly, it’s a bit late to ask William Ralph Bennett Jr (1930-2008) if he thought of the comparison himself, but his source (if any) surely wasn’t Baresch. :-)

]]> By: Rene Zandbergen http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments/comment-page-1#comment-15604 Rene Zandbergen Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:17:02 +0000 http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=2691#comment-15604 I realise that my question in comment #1 is not a well-posed one, since I don't actually know the answer. Bennet is right for modern times (to the best of my knowledge), but we can't be sure about Baresch. More about this soon, I hope. I realise that my question in comment #1 is not a well-posed one, since I
don’t actually know the answer. Bennet is right for modern times (to the
best of my knowledge), but we can’t be sure about Baresch.
More about this soon, I hope.

]]> By: nickpelling http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments/comment-page-1#comment-15596 nickpelling Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:36:44 +0000 http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=2691#comment-15596 <strong>William:</strong> Actually, Andy Lloyd proposed a connection between <a href="http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/ds12.html" rel="nofollow">the Voynich Manuscript, Dogon mythology, and Nibiru</a> back in 2001 - so I'm very sorry, but when it comes to the VMs, you'll have to work much harder than that to be classified as really silly. :-) Having said that, linking the whole "aquatic ape" theory with the VMs nymphs might be a novel angle. However, because they are wearing clothes on the early pages before the sequence degenerates into nakedness, is it depicting a back-to-front kind of evolution? Look at the Sagittarius page, though: someone has begun drawing in a sketchy barrel at the top before giving up halfway through. Right now, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me: but perhaps it will be the codicological key that helps someone else work out what the authors / authors' specific intent was here. Just so you know! :-) William: Actually, Andy Lloyd proposed a connection between the Voynich Manuscript, Dogon mythology, and Nibiru back in 2001 – so I’m very sorry, but when it comes to the VMs, you’ll have to work much harder than that to be classified as really silly. :-)

Having said that, linking the whole “aquatic ape” theory with the VMs nymphs might be a novel angle. However, because they are wearing clothes on the early pages before the sequence degenerates into nakedness, is it depicting a back-to-front kind of evolution? Look at the Sagittarius page, though: someone has begun drawing in a sketchy barrel at the top before giving up halfway through. Right now, this doesn’t make a lot of sense to me: but perhaps it will be the codicological key that helps someone else work out what the authors / authors’ specific intent was here. Just so you know! :-)

]]> By: William Mentalcase Masterson http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2010/02/04/more-apod-spin-off-comments/comment-page-1#comment-15566 William Mentalcase Masterson Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:57:27 +0000 http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=2691#comment-15566 Also, some of the images of the VMs show these women bathing or whatever. I thought that, maybe these pages were some type of erotica for the readers? Perhaps that section was porn? Where are the men in those pictures? Maybe I haven't seen enough pages. Although, about 10 years ago, I researched this topic pretty thoroughly. I just have a shitty memory. Ta ta Also, some of the images of the VMs show these women bathing or whatever. I thought that, maybe these pages were some type of erotica for the readers? Perhaps that section was porn? Where are the men in those pictures? Maybe I haven’t seen enough pages. Although, about 10 years ago, I researched this topic pretty thoroughly. I just have a shitty memory.

Ta ta

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