<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Edith Sherwood&#8217;s Voynich plants&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants</link>
	<description>The latest news, views, research and reviews on uncracked historical ciphers...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:49:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=</generator>
<xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" />
	<item>
		<title>By: Bobbi</title>
		<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/comment-page-1#comment-69845</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobbi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 02:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=215#comment-69845</guid>
		<description>Has anybody else discussed the ramifications of medieval left-handedness (shieldry, for instance)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anybody else discussed the ramifications of medieval left-handedness (shieldry, for instance)?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bobbi</title>
		<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/comment-page-1#comment-69844</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobbi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 02:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=215#comment-69844</guid>
		<description>Nick, Diane:

It&#039;s a &quot;cock-eyed&quot; world from my point of view.  I don&#039;t remember who taught me to read.  The same person who taught me to read probably also taught me to write. Today, I suspect it was my left-handed half-sister.  What&#039;s my point, you ask?  I had surgery on my &quot;wandering&quot; left eye when I was 6 years old.  In the meantime, I was reading at the level of a 10-12 year old.  I was writing in the &quot;typical&quot; left-hander&#039;s &quot;upside-down&quot; grip on the pen.  Southpaw&#039;s usually do this to avoid smearing the freshly-written letters.  When my 5-th grade teacher realized my difficulties with writing in ink, she did a VERY KIND act rather than force me into writing right-handed.  She very loosely tied a sash around my waist and the crook of my left elbow.  She also put Webster&#039;s Dictionary on my desk-seat. (I was tiny--still am.)

What&#039;s my point? Wal, I just got finished reproducing some of the Voynich botanical captioning/writings.  I had no difficulty writing the VMs letters once I figured out the starting point and direction of the first stroke or loop.  Now, if I can just figure out WHAT I&#039;m writing!

Happy New Year y&#039;all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, Diane:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a &#8220;cock-eyed&#8221; world from my point of view.  I don&#8217;t remember who taught me to read.  The same person who taught me to read probably also taught me to write. Today, I suspect it was my left-handed half-sister.  What&#8217;s my point, you ask?  I had surgery on my &#8220;wandering&#8221; left eye when I was 6 years old.  In the meantime, I was reading at the level of a 10-12 year old.  I was writing in the &#8220;typical&#8221; left-hander&#8217;s &#8220;upside-down&#8221; grip on the pen.  Southpaw&#8217;s usually do this to avoid smearing the freshly-written letters.  When my 5-th grade teacher realized my difficulties with writing in ink, she did a VERY KIND act rather than force me into writing right-handed.  She very loosely tied a sash around my waist and the crook of my left elbow.  She also put Webster&#8217;s Dictionary on my desk-seat. (I was tiny&#8211;still am.)</p>
<p>What&#8217;s my point? Wal, I just got finished reproducing some of the Voynich botanical captioning/writings.  I had no difficulty writing the VMs letters once I figured out the starting point and direction of the first stroke or loop.  Now, if I can just figure out WHAT I&#8217;m writing!</p>
<p>Happy New Year y&#8217;all!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nickpelling</title>
		<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/comment-page-1#comment-68216</link>
		<dc:creator>nickpelling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 11:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=215#comment-68216</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Diane:&lt;/strong&gt; you &lt;em&gt;should&lt;/em&gt; already receive notifications when someone adds a comment to a post you&#039;ve already commented on, I don&#039;t know why that wouldn&#039;t be happening. Use the tag, what&#039;s there to disagree with? :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Diane:</strong> you <em>should</em> already receive notifications when someone adds a comment to a post you&#8217;ve already commented on, I don&#8217;t know why that wouldn&#8217;t be happening. Use the tag, what&#8217;s there to disagree with? <img src='http://www.ciphermysteries.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Diane</title>
		<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/comment-page-1#comment-68213</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 11:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=215#comment-68213</guid>
		<description>Nick - is it possible to have a link which lets us know when you reply to a comment? 

But more to the point, I&#039;d like to use this as a tag on a page about the Vms. May I?

&quot;Even though the VMs world is full of people who seem to think that one in a million is an acceptable level of probability to be working with, please excuse me if I hold a different view&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick &#8211; is it possible to have a link which lets us know when you reply to a comment? </p>
<p>But more to the point, I&#8217;d like to use this as a tag on a page about the Vms. May I?</p>
<p>&#8220;Even though the VMs world is full of people who seem to think that one in a million is an acceptable level of probability to be working with, please excuse me if I hold a different view&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Fidler</title>
		<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/comment-page-1#comment-36723</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Fidler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Feb 2011 02:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=215#comment-36723</guid>
		<description>I believe Edith Sherwood is correct. Let me add the following observation. What if the writer could not write the language he is speaking but is Phonetically writing in his own language so that he could read the text to his audience in the language expected or for his translator to verbally rewrite correctly?! This would explain the variances.  Ex..if you try to speak Polish or Russian and you can only write English you could Phonetically write in English the Polish or Russian words and thus speak to your audience or interpreter.  I speak Polish but cannot write it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe Edith Sherwood is correct. Let me add the following observation. What if the writer could not write the language he is speaking but is Phonetically writing in his own language so that he could read the text to his audience in the language expected or for his translator to verbally rewrite correctly?! This would explain the variances.  Ex..if you try to speak Polish or Russian and you can only write English you could Phonetically write in English the Polish or Russian words and thus speak to your audience or interpreter.  I speak Polish but cannot write it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nickpelling</title>
		<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/comment-page-1#comment-1734</link>
		<dc:creator>nickpelling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=215#comment-1734</guid>
		<description>Hi Giuseppe,

I totally agree that anagrams should make sense, with no spare letters: but who is to say what the correct spelling of an Italian word was circa 1500? Yet historically, so many attempted Voynich decipherers have relied upon precisely this kind of uncertainty to prop up their creaky hypotheses - and it seems likely that Edith Sherwood&#039;s recent attempt falls into this category.

I would also agree that her grasp of Italian etymology and plant history may not be quite strong enough to support her claims: your example of &quot;Rotocalco&quot; seems, like the example of &quot;soia&quot;, to be but one of many.

Cheers, ....Nick Pelling....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Giuseppe,</p>
<p>I totally agree that anagrams should make sense, with no spare letters: but who is to say what the correct spelling of an Italian word was circa 1500? Yet historically, so many attempted Voynich decipherers have relied upon precisely this kind of uncertainty to prop up their creaky hypotheses &#8211; and it seems likely that Edith Sherwood&#8217;s recent attempt falls into this category.</p>
<p>I would also agree that her grasp of Italian etymology and plant history may not be quite strong enough to support her claims: your example of &#8220;Rotocalco&#8221; seems, like the example of &#8220;soia&#8221;, to be but one of many.</p>
<p>Cheers, &#8230;.Nick Pelling&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: giuseppe</title>
		<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/comment-page-1#comment-1733</link>
		<dc:creator>giuseppe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=215#comment-1733</guid>
		<description>Sono italiano, capisco poco l&#039;inglese, ma ho capito abbastanza e ho riflettuto sulla faccenda degli anagrammi. Ipotizzando che la lingua sia italiana e va anagrammata, tutti gli anagrammi devono essere di senso compiuto, e non lasciare mai una lettera in sospeso. Inoltre, la signora Sherwood dovrebbe far caso all&#039;etmologia della parola italiana: la figura da lei indicata col termine ROTOCALCO (tradotta da lei con Image) indica non certo una pianta, ma il MAGAZINE. E ancora,  la parola rotocalco è documentata per la I volta nel 1939! Come potrebbe l&#039;autore del Voynich aver...precorso i tempi e scritto la didascalia (relativa a un vegetale!) ROTOCALCO, sebbene in anagramma??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sono italiano, capisco poco l&#8217;inglese, ma ho capito abbastanza e ho riflettuto sulla faccenda degli anagrammi. Ipotizzando che la lingua sia italiana e va anagrammata, tutti gli anagrammi devono essere di senso compiuto, e non lasciare mai una lettera in sospeso. Inoltre, la signora Sherwood dovrebbe far caso all&#8217;etmologia della parola italiana: la figura da lei indicata col termine ROTOCALCO (tradotta da lei con Image) indica non certo una pianta, ma il MAGAZINE. E ancora,  la parola rotocalco è documentata per la I volta nel 1939! Come potrebbe l&#8217;autore del Voynich aver&#8230;precorso i tempi e scritto la didascalia (relativa a un vegetale!) ROTOCALCO, sebbene in anagramma??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nickpelling</title>
		<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/comment-page-1#comment-273</link>
		<dc:creator>nickpelling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=215#comment-273</guid>
		<description>Hi James,

From the VMs&#039; handwriting and at history, Northern Italy circa 1450-1500 is a pretty safe bet, which is consistent with it being by Leonardo.

But that&#039;s only reduced the odds on Leonardo&#039;s being the author to (say) 1 in 100,000. And given that it was apparently written by a right-hander, you&#039;d have to say that the odds are increased to (say) 1 in 1,000,000.

I would happily flag anything in Edith Sherwood&#039;s presentation that would reduce these odds to a more manageable level of probability. But I couldn&#039;t find any detail or argument there that did this.

Even though the VMs world is full of people who seem to think that one in a million is an acceptable level of probability to be working with, please excuse me if I hold a different view.

Fact: the VMs is written in a sophisticated, unbreakable cipher. Fact: when Leonardo wanted to encipher words, he simply transposed their syllables. A different thing entirely.

Cheers, ....Nick Pelling....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi James,</p>
<p>From the VMs&#8217; handwriting and at history, Northern Italy circa 1450-1500 is a pretty safe bet, which is consistent with it being by Leonardo.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s only reduced the odds on Leonardo&#8217;s being the author to (say) 1 in 100,000. And given that it was apparently written by a right-hander, you&#8217;d have to say that the odds are increased to (say) 1 in 1,000,000.</p>
<p>I would happily flag anything in Edith Sherwood&#8217;s presentation that would reduce these odds to a more manageable level of probability. But I couldn&#8217;t find any detail or argument there that did this.</p>
<p>Even though the VMs world is full of people who seem to think that one in a million is an acceptable level of probability to be working with, please excuse me if I hold a different view.</p>
<p>Fact: the VMs is written in a sophisticated, unbreakable cipher. Fact: when Leonardo wanted to encipher words, he simply transposed their syllables. A different thing entirely.</p>
<p>Cheers, &#8230;.Nick Pelling&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/comment-page-1#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=215#comment-264</guid>
		<description>Hi Nick,

I am not a handwriting expert nor for that matter an expert on ciphers, nor 2nd century Gnosticism.  I did burn several hours reading thru Edith Sherwood&#039;s website, (it does have a poor design which does not lead you to the meat of her thesis).  But she does make many valid points, more than other sites regarding alternative explanations that I have encountered.  

Granted, VM is not my cup of tea, as I was looking for the Heptarchia Mystica when I came across it.

I fail to comprehend why the no one thinks LD would have used his right hand for writing as a child.  As recently as 1940, my left handed father was forced to use his right hand for penmanship under threat of broken knuckles, so was my left handed mother-in-law.  

As to the comment that these childish drawings are nothing like the Mona Lisa, I would agree.  My original computer program produced “Hello World” and my daughter’s 8 years old art definitely lacks sophistication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nick,</p>
<p>I am not a handwriting expert nor for that matter an expert on ciphers, nor 2nd century Gnosticism.  I did burn several hours reading thru Edith Sherwood&#8217;s website, (it does have a poor design which does not lead you to the meat of her thesis).  But she does make many valid points, more than other sites regarding alternative explanations that I have encountered.  </p>
<p>Granted, VM is not my cup of tea, as I was looking for the Heptarchia Mystica when I came across it.</p>
<p>I fail to comprehend why the no one thinks LD would have used his right hand for writing as a child.  As recently as 1940, my left handed father was forced to use his right hand for penmanship under threat of broken knuckles, so was my left handed mother-in-law.  </p>
<p>As to the comment that these childish drawings are nothing like the Mona Lisa, I would agree.  My original computer program produced “Hello World” and my daughter’s 8 years old art definitely lacks sophistication.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nickpelling</title>
		<link>http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2008/09/13/edith-sherwoods-voynich-plants/comment-page-1#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator>nickpelling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ciphermysteries.com/?p=215#comment-255</guid>
		<description>Hi James,

The only bit of writing Edith Sherwood really flags as Leonardo-esque (his supposed &quot;lionardo&quot; signature) is demonstrably not part of the original document, but was added by a later owner. The main Voynichese writing itself was done in a brisk, well-organized left-to-right manner, with pronounced and very obvious top-left-to-bottom-right downstrokes, which any palaeographer would tell you is a convincing indication of right-handedness.

There is also little or no visual continuity between any of the pictures in the VMs and any of the drawings in Leonardo&#039;s extensive and well-documented corpus, nor between any of the subject matter to a significant degree. The nymphs are not Mona Lisa, not even close.

I&#039;m sure Edith Sherwood is a lovely person, but my calling her theory a &quot;load of rubbish&quot; is somewhat overgenerous, as it allows people to think I might just be being flippant, and that it&#039;s actually OK. It&#039;s not OK - it&#039;s nonsense.

I have absolutely nothing against lefties. It&#039;s just that, for all the brilliant and interesting left-handers out there now and in history, it clearly wasn&#039;t one who wrote the VMs.

Cheers, .....Nick Pelling.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi James,</p>
<p>The only bit of writing Edith Sherwood really flags as Leonardo-esque (his supposed &#8220;lionardo&#8221; signature) is demonstrably not part of the original document, but was added by a later owner. The main Voynichese writing itself was done in a brisk, well-organized left-to-right manner, with pronounced and very obvious top-left-to-bottom-right downstrokes, which any palaeographer would tell you is a convincing indication of right-handedness.</p>
<p>There is also little or no visual continuity between any of the pictures in the VMs and any of the drawings in Leonardo&#8217;s extensive and well-documented corpus, nor between any of the subject matter to a significant degree. The nymphs are not Mona Lisa, not even close.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Edith Sherwood is a lovely person, but my calling her theory a &#8220;load of rubbish&#8221; is somewhat overgenerous, as it allows people to think I might just be being flippant, and that it&#8217;s actually OK. It&#8217;s not OK &#8211; it&#8217;s nonsense.</p>
<p>I have absolutely nothing against lefties. It&#8217;s just that, for all the brilliant and interesting left-handers out there now and in history, it clearly wasn&#8217;t one who wrote the VMs.</p>
<p>Cheers, &#8230;..Nick Pelling&#8230;..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

